KISHU Forums (http://kishu.ca/forums/index.php)
- General Discussion (http://kishu.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- enthusia professional racing (http://kishu.ca/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1224)

enthusia professional racing

http://www.konamistudio.co.jp/enthu...movie/prom.html
click on first video, eleven minutes.

saintkamus:
oh please, not as realstic as GT4? give me a break, GT4 is somewhat realistic if you use the proper tyres, but enthusia is on a league of it's own, GT4 is the better of the two, but realisim is not the reason. the reason is the fact that enthusia only has 2 real circuits, no LAN, and their fantasy tracks are boring (most of them).

This game has much better tyre simulation than GT4, and it shows in braking, you have to brake a lot earlier in tsukuba and nurburgring in some of the corners (using the same cars, "N" ty res on GT4) and in enthusia you can actually slide the car at low speed corners, just like in real life (you can't do this in GT4) and the drive train simulation is MUCH better done than in GT4, FF cars don't understeer as much as they do as in GT4, in GT4 FF cars will understeer waay too much with out warning, in enthusia the understeer feels much more natural, and you'll start to lose grip on the front tyres first instead of just having the car go froward and then lose grip like in most FF cars in GT4. it's better done when it comes to the simulation, period.
if you aren't trying this with the DFP on both games your opinion is not to be taken seriously in the first place (not to say you can't have fun playing with the DS2, but this IS a sim after all, and it's MEANT to be played with the wheel, not dumbed down DS2 controls.)
so this is what enthusia does better than GT4:

- Better tyre simulation. this is the first thing you notice, not saying GT4 with "N" tyres is bad, but this is closer to what a real car feels like on the road, braking points are different because of this, you have to brake earlier in this game compared to GT4, if you don't the car will either understeer or oversteer and you'll go off the track, in GT4 it's possible to introduce understeer with late braking, but it's easier to "save" the car in GT4 than it is in other sims or real life, but at least it's real enough in GT4 to be enjoyable.

- More realistic "shift timing". In GT4 it takes longer than it should to change gears in some cars, they do this so that buying a better clutch actually has some value in the game... but what they really should do is either add a clutch button. and to add value to the clutch upgrades they could make it breakable so that you don't change gears faster than you should.
Also, to compensate for some short commings in the simulation of GT4 and keep the cars performing close to the real ones they changed the gear ratios some what on some of the cars, in enthusia they are how they should be.

- Acurate physics of the cars at any speeds, like i said, in GT4 it's impossible to slide some cars on some corners when they SHOULD slide, thankfully it's only on slow corners, high speed corner physics are just about right.

- Far more acurate drive train layout simulation, specially FF, in GT4 some FF cars don't handle anywhere close to their real life counterparts, too much understeer and sometimes the tyres sqeal when they shouldn't on some FF cars. MR is ok in GT4, and FR is done the best.

-Better sounds (but some cars still lack "roar", they should sound.. i don't know. STRONGER)

- PROPER steering simulation, sure. the force feedback could use some work. but the steering feels dead on acurate, they took evrything into acount, first off when you move the wheel and the car is STOPED the wheel will stay put in enthusia, in GT4 it won't, in a real car.. it's stays put, and when you accelerate it starts going back to the center... in GT4 it does, but WAAAY too slow, you have to do this yourself, in enthusia the wheel goes back to the center much more realisticly.
the problem in enthusia is that some cars should have heavier steering than others, but for the most part they all feel the same, in GT4 it's not the case, and in GT4 "race" cars have about 300 degrees instead of 900, which is the way it should be, but in enthusia i'm not so sure they did this right, production cars feel perfect, but some race cars seem to have too much steering, i can't confirm this yet though, i have to make some more tests.
Also, the force feedback in GT4 is kind of "exagerated" they transmit the bumps, which is fine, but they also try to transmit some of the bumps you should be feeling on a MOTION SIMULATOR, not the wheel, this is a substitue for a motion simulator, which is ok considering there isn't a way to play the game with one in the first place, but it's not realistic. But again, this is ok since it adds feel that you are missing, but i won't say it's bad that enthusia doesn't have it, because it shouldn't, but maybe they are missing some feedback that some cars transmit trough the wheel.

-Better "wet" simulation, Tsukuba wet is fun, it's it's hard to get a feel of the cars, in enthusia they feel just like it feels when you drive your car out in the rain. Not saying it's bad in GT4, but after playing Enthusia you'll realize it's lacking in GT4.

- Acurate transmition simulation. This one is actually very important... and automatic car is just that.. an automatic, and a manual car is just that.. a manual tranmision, in GT4 ALL CARS are MT, if you choose "automatic" it's just a shift assist, not an automatic transmision!, it just means the computer changes the gears for you, but it's still a manual tranmision...
in Enthusia the Manual transmision has two options, Manual or "shift assisst" which is the proper term for it, it's still a manual transmision, but the game will shift it for you, same gear ratios, same shift timing.
Automatics... Enthusia actually HAS automatics, in GT4 even cars that are automatic transmision only in real life have Manual transimsions in the game, this one actually blows...
in Enthusia an automatic shifts like an automatic, same gear ratios, and they even went as far as to include the actual shift times when choosing automatic (meaning, if you are going kinda slow it won't rev up untill the redline like in GT4, and will shift a lot earlier.), and "auto" cars have "semi automatic" option, it still shifts like an automatic.. but you do the shifting, just like in "triptonic" transisions in real life. this makes the car feel a lot more realistic when it comes to transimsion.

So.. with all those advantages you'd think GT4 would be smoked though right? not the case, GT4 offers a decent enough simulation to be fun, but has tons more tracks, a better version of nurburgring, (not to say the enthusia version sucks, it's very good too, but it's missing some bumps, but their version of tsukuba is better, watched video comparasions and it has some mini banks that are a bit steeper than the ones in the GT4 version, and looking at videos of real track, it has them like in enthusia, but other than that it's exactly the same.) Suzuka, Motegi, and tons more, and they are all very well done in GT4, this adds trmendous replay value to me, in enthusia most of the fantasy tracks are boring (to be fair, i find about 70% of the fantasy tracks in GT4 boring.. but in enthusia pretty much all of them.. and that leaves me with just two circuits i like...) tons more cars, LAN mode, and more options than Enthusia. so the overall package is better in GT4...
but.. enthusia does have something GT4 should have, and i'm amazed at how well done it was in enthusia.. the mountain pass, man, that thing is FUN, pretty well done. and it's a drifters paradise (but since the game is so realistic, only people with actual skills will enjoy this.. i'm not a good drifter, but never the less i enjoy the course a LOT). i really hope the next GT has mountain passess, really fun.. wish i could play it via LAN.. O_o

I really think that if GT4 had this level of simulation it would be perfect, at least as far as the driving experience goes, in enthusia it seems like a waste... such great simulation, but so few tracks to enjoy them on, and no multiplayer of any kind.. that KILLS replay value.

I really hope that the next GT utilizes a whole new engine, and they can at least match enthusia simulation.

__________________


myogi CCW dry 2:53'206 cap

I was gonna wait until english version come out ...

but since you brought it up, I might as well download haha.

__________________
BBBC@ GDB THE NEW CIRCULAR Go-Go!

I think the big concern is that if GT4 is too realistic, the younger and less serious audiences won't be able to get into it. It seems to have a demographic of everyone in mind, so GT4 obviously can't be too hardcore realistic or it would lose some of its fanbase. The other side/problem with that, though, is that since GT4 is so well installed and has so many licenses, every other game will pale in comparison, whether it's a better simulator or not. In the end, it's up to the Polyphony team to make the most accurate 'driving simulator' available... But it will never be fully accurate as they try to get as many fans into the GT games as possible.

My 2 cents.

__________________
v3) Evo III A-Tune // 1+ mil pts (transfered from v2 @ 305k) [sluttiest Evo III in town]
Retired

"If there is such a thing as a natural talent for driving, it just means that the person will improve a little bit faster than everyone else. There's no such thing as an innate talent that overcomes repeated effort and practice... Do you understand Daiki, Sakai? Winning and losing is a matter of how experienced you are."

everyone needs to stfu and get laid.

__________________
kishu 4 life

gt has always given option to have assists on/off. then y can't they make the game more realistic with assist off? i think it is gd to have game with better physics then gt, then mabe gt5 poly would put more effort in better ai and physics. the most accurate driving simulator is on pc not console. i am not saying screw gt and get enthusia. just something new to look into for simulator fans.

__________________


myogi CCW dry 2:53'206 cap

some geek at my school said great stuff about enthusia. he brought up that the farrari in enthusia had a bad understeer problem and they didnt know why. so when they test drove it, they got thier answer. idk, something like that.

i kinda want to play it a bit. it doesnt mean i will get an xbox for that game(not a halo2 faqzor), but i do want to check it out.

__________________
GT4 A-Spec:3682 (cuz KD wants to see)!

Times so Far(as of Jan 2005): DKKNT card
Usui: 180sx-2'57
Akina: DH 180sx-3'10/UH- 3'21
Cards: Dusty (EK,GDB), DKKNT(180sx),DKKT2 (Sil-80)
Zeonic Freak web page:
http://www.freewebs.com/zeonic_freak
Myspace Site:myspace.com/zeonic_freak

enthusia is for ps2 not xbox.

__________________


myogi CCW dry 2:53'206 cap

The game that you are probably looking for is, Forza.

That game is XBOX exclusive.

__________________
BBBC@ GDB THE NEW CIRCULAR Go-Go!

Well, i did see some of the previews, or what i could see. but that blows GT4 outta the water. I like the miata drift preview.

Forza, thats the one i was talking about. thanxs luminous.

__________________
GT4 A-Spec:3682 (cuz KD wants to see)!

Times so Far(as of Jan 2005): DKKNT card
Usui: 180sx-2'57
Akina: DH 180sx-3'10/UH- 3'21
Cards: Dusty (EK,GDB), DKKNT(180sx),DKKT2 (Sil-80)
Zeonic Freak web page:
http://www.freewebs.com/zeonic_freak
Myspace Site:myspace.com/zeonic_freak

forza will run at only 30 fps compared to gt4 and enthusia's 60 fps. i heard the damage model wasn't as great as some people think. and the physics so far are under that of gt4. it still has time to develop though. the more the better. if u look around in the site u can see they show graphs of actual and in game data that match up pretty well. enthusia put more effort in each car, gt kinda depends on which car. enthusia does things such as giving the rotary cars a ring tone to shift as they do in real life. on the other hand the gear ratios in gt are not accurate, some cars like the new mini that has 6 gears in real life has 5 gears. did i also mention that enthusia has a clutch button? though u can completely ignore it, if u want u can heel toe yourself. plus it can be useful at times, especially if u feel like drifting in the game. should definitely download, only 1.8 gbs. has 200+ cars which isn't as bad as it seems compared to gt since there isn't all those clones. should definitely play driving revolution to see wat kind of physics u are getting into. it is equivalent to gt license tests i suppose, but rather fun! plus that is how u unlock cars in all the modes other than enthusia life(equivalent to gt mode). enthusia life mode is where the game shines for those who are tired of the gt ai ramming into you like u weren't there. this still happens if your car is much underpowered, or u drive extremely slow. but u can see the difference(though it is mainly because of how crappy gt's ai are........). the biggest difference is in YOUR driving. i don't think there is many of us that has NEVER used the opponent car as a wall in gt........in enthusia u will try to avoid hitting the opponent and try to find a line to pass them even if it means not finishing first because as u can see in the video, HP and deduction of skill points. your rank is taken from the more recent 12 weeks, so it is REALLY important to never let HP drop to zero if u want to progress. Personally because enthusia is 'free' and gt4 isn't i am playing enthusia over buying gt4 and still having loads of fun. definitely play with wheel. i have only played with the assists off, so i can't comment on how the game plays with them on.

on the side note, isn't poly making a "gran turismo for kids", previously "gran turismo for boys". i heard about this in the gtplanet forums. if they really go so far to make something like that, they should make a gran turismo title that takes the physics to a higher lvl. but then i guess its easier to downgrade the physics than the opposite.

__________________


myogi CCW dry 2:53'206 cap

Quote:

Originally posted by winmx enthusia does things such as giving the rotary cars a ring tone to shift as they do in real life. did i also mention that enthusia has a clutch button? though u can completely ignore it, if u want u can heel toe yourself. plus it can be useful at times, especially if u feel like drifting in the game.

__________________
GT4 A-Spec:3682 (cuz KD wants to see)!

Times so Far(as of Jan 2005): DKKNT card
Usui: 180sx-2'57
Akina: DH 180sx-3'10/UH- 3'21
Cards: Dusty (EK,GDB), DKKNT(180sx),DKKT2 (Sil-80)
Zeonic Freak web page:
http://www.freewebs.com/zeonic_freak
Myspace Site:myspace.com/zeonic_freak

lol^max

The 323 doesn't have a rotary engine.

__________________
BBBC@ GDB THE NEW CIRCULAR Go-Go!

yes it doens't have a rotary engine. and i am mainly referring to the rx7's i guess since those should be the only rotary cars in the game. i never heard the ring on my tii before, but i know for fact it has it stock. was kinda surprised by the little detail. you can drift easily without the clutch button as u dun't have invisible forces stopping you from sliding. it is more like an extra tool.

__________________


myogi CCW dry 2:53'206 cap

um, mazdas have rotary engines, cuz their mazdas. and my 323 is a mazda, there for, it has an rotary engine.

... thats f'd up, i know it has a sohc, but the engine itself should be rotary or tied to that some how.

idk, im still happy with my car.

__________________
GT4 A-Spec:3682 (cuz KD wants to see)!

Times so Far(as of Jan 2005): DKKNT card
Usui: 180sx-2'57
Akina: DH 180sx-3'10/UH- 3'21
Cards: Dusty (EK,GDB), DKKNT(180sx),DKKT2 (Sil-80)
Zeonic Freak web page:
http://www.freewebs.com/zeonic_freak
Myspace Site:myspace.com/zeonic_freak

HAHAHA, u honestly think ur 323 has a rotary engine?? You're a funny guy.

__________________
...